Smart Justice
Smart Justice covers the pursuit of better outcomes on justice system issues, including incarceration, foster care, and juvenile justice. The podcast is produced by Restore Hope.
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Smart Justice
Young Lives Interrupted: What's The Game Plan?
This is not just a story about youth crime—it’s a story about what’s possible when we stop asking ‘what’s wrong with them?’ and start asking ‘what happened to them?’
In this episode of Smart Justice, we explore what it means to change the game plan for youth on the edge. We hear powerful testimony from former gang member Antoine Jones, who lost his daughter to gun violence. He shares his journey from the streets to prison, revealing how the absence of family structure drives many young people toward gangs seeking protection and belonging. Now dedicating his life to mentoring troubled youth, Antoine delivers a message of hope.
Former football coach Fitz Hill is trying to tackle a devastating reality: In the United States, homicide is the leading cause of death among black males ages 1 to 44. Hill wants to see black males make it to age 45 and come out on top. His initiative, called 1st and 45, exists to bring awareness to the social and economic factors contributing to the epidemic of black male homicides.
Juvenile prosecutor Casey Beard provides insights into some alarming trends, noting the shift from minor adolescent offenses to weapon-related crimes, which are often amplified by social media. Her dual approach balances accountability with prevention: "We cannot do harm by trying to turn off the faucet, so why not do it as well?"
We also meet Sandy Williams, the director of the North Little Rock Academy. The Academy provides an alternative learning environment, serving students in grades six through twelve, designed to meet the needs of at-risk students who may not thrive in traditional school settings. Drawing from his own childhood in poverty, Williams hopes for year-round schooling and community-based alternatives to suspensions. His perspective challenges our resource allocation: "We are paying more to incarcerate kids than we are to educate those same kids."
Ready to learn how your community can implement evidence-based approaches to juvenile justice? Subscribe now and join the movement toward smart justice that transforms lives and neighborhoods for generations to come.
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If they do not get the foundation from zero to ten to be successful, they can't win.
Speaker 2:It almost feels like terrorism on some levels.
Speaker 3:They are not criminals, they are kids. Any kid can get off path.
Speaker 4:Crime and punishment are hot topics, but are there solutions? We're hearing about the best we can do. What if there's a smarter way to approach justice, one that delivers better return on investment? I look at it like about every nine beds occupied for a year, that's around a million dollars, strengthens, law enforcement and courts I get fired up about that.
Speaker 5:I'm excited about the potential that we have to really do something that's going to change generations to come.
Speaker 4:And connects families in crisis with the resources they need to end cycles of crime.
Speaker 2:Having that support in place. I wouldn't be here without it.
Speaker 4:This isn't just a theory. We're covering real, evidence-based solutions that are improving our communities. Welcome to Smart Justice. This is Season 4, juvenile justice. Growing up, antoine Jones never really saw his parents. His mother needed to work and his father was in prison.
Speaker 1:That's what we deal with a lot in our community the lack of family, the lack of love, the lack of trust. We ain't got none of that in our communities.
Speaker 4:So the streets became his home. He joined a gang because he was looking for a sense of family. Now in his 40s, antoine has spent many of his years in prison too. He's out now and has been working with at-risk youth to encourage them to take a different path. He says when he looks around his community he sees many people who are suffering and feel lost, looking for anything that might help.
Speaker 1:We're looking for that peace that make us live to fight another day. Right now we ain't living.
Speaker 4:He believes fear is a significant driving force behind the rise in youth crime. Noting that many young people appear to be deeply afraid, they want protection. Antoine is no stranger to pain. His young daughter was killed in a drive-by shooting when people were looking for him. He visits juvenile detention centers hoping to reach teens so they don't end up in prison as adults. He delivers two key messages Despite what you think, there are people who care about you and there are people in the justice system who are here to help, not hurt you. He hopes these messages will reduce the negativity many of them are feeling.
Speaker 1:Everything negative before the vibration of joy.
Speaker 4:What does true happiness look like to him?
Speaker 1:A full family, a fully united community. Family is everything.
Speaker 4:Antoine turned 45 this year, an age that's not lost on him time. Antoine turned 45 this year, an age that's not lost on him. His work mentoring at-risk youth has made him quite aware of the grim statistic Homicide is the number one killer of black males age 1 to 44. He's escaped becoming part of that statistic. I guess now I get to worry more about heart disease, he jokes. Someone else who's familiar with that statistic is former football coach Fitz Hill. He wants to bring awareness to the factors contributing to the epidemic of black male homicide.
Speaker 1:This is a system that has to be disrupted.
Speaker 4:I'm Paul Chapman. In this episode, we'll meet Hill and learn about his game plan for tackling youth violence. We'll also talk to a juvenile prosecutor who handles cases involving teens who break the law. And we'll meet the director of an alternative learning academy, a special school designed for struggling students with unique circumstances.
Speaker 6:Support for Smart Justice is provided by Restore Hope. Have you ever wondered why some communities aren't seeing the outcomes they seek when trying to support at-risk families, even those that seem to have all the right assets? Restore Hope is a software and services organization dedicated to empowering communities by offering the coordination and tools needed to support the vulnerable, like those involved in the justice and child welfare systems. Learn how you can bring these tools to your community at RestoreHopeio. Restore Hope is a nonprofit aiming to reduce incarceration and the need for foster care through a community-driven approach.
Speaker 4:In the US, homicide is the leading cause of death among black males age 1 to 44. Former football coach Fitz Hill wants to see them make it to age 45 and come out on top. His initiative, called First in 45, exists to bring awareness to the social and economic factors contributing to this epidemic. Restore Hope's. Kendall Bruce has more on this story to this epidemic.
Speaker 7:Restore Hope's. Kendall Bruce has more on this story. In the early 2000s, fitz Hill was the head football coach at San Jose State University in California, when Hunters Point in San Francisco experienced an especially violent summer. Gang and drug-related violence resulted in numerous unsolved homicides of young African-American men. This violence deeply affected the community, leading to a pervasive sense of fear and loss. He was approached by a juvenile probation officer, wondering if Hill could help.
Speaker 1:He had asked me about trying to do a program for the kids who just were seeing death after death, after death.
Speaker 7:The city of San Francisco awarded Hill's football program a $50,000 grant to offer a week-long experience for local kids, providing them with a much-needed break from their life on the streets. So he arranged transportation for the kids, bringing them in by bus and covering all their expenses. Hill says that for many of the kids, being just 45 minutes away from the neighborhood and stepping onto the college campus felt like visiting a foreign country.
Speaker 1:When they went to the dining hall, they had never seen ice cream come out of the machine and so they could eat all they want. And then what was really impactful was my football team. They were their mentors. So they got excited about little Johnny and little Dave, that they were taking care of them because they were mentors. And so here are many of my kids who would come from these backgrounds. They saw themselves in these kids and I'll never forget. One of the kids was walking across the campus and he saw the swimming pool. Well, he ran and jumped in because he saw blue water.
Speaker 7:He saw the impact he could have on a child's life and gave up coaching.
Speaker 1:Because I realized I was only going to be able to impact at most 100 people a year, because that's all. You had 85 scholarships, you could have 15 walk ons and I said, lord you know, enlarge my territory.
Speaker 7:While recruiting in underserved neighborhoods as a football coach, Hill was disheartened when he met a high school senior who excelled at football but couldn't read.
Speaker 1:I realized I got, I see what's going on, you know, and that discontent became the catalyst for change and I said, oh, this, this a system that has to be disrupted.
Speaker 7:He then became president of Arkansas Baptist College and launched the Delta Classic for Literacy, an annual football game highlighting literacy in the Delta region. He believes literacy is crucial for breaking cycles of inequality and creating opportunities for young Black men.
Speaker 1:It's interesting when you go to prison. How many people can't read.
Speaker 7:Studies have shown a strong correlation between literacy and incarceration, which disproportionately affects young Black men, and when parents struggle with literacy, their children are less likely to develop strong reading and writing skills, perpetuating cycles of disadvantage within families. In 2016, hill established the Research Institute for the Prevention of Gun Violence. He envisioned it could serve as a wake-up call to the community. According to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, juveniles account for a notable percentage of murder offenses in the US. In 2020, it was 8%. That number rose to 11% by 2022.
Speaker 1:It's not normal for a 15 or 16-year-old kid to kill somebody. That's not normal, but we have accepted that as normal.
Speaker 7:His goal was to analyze the root causes of this violence and develop positive and lasting solutions.
Speaker 1:They can't win. But so we won't say what's wrong with them. No, that's the wrong question. The question is what happened to them? How are we failing our children? I'm not blaming them. I won't do that because, as a child shooting somebody, they're dealing with extreme trauma.
Speaker 7:Research shows that sons of teenage mothers are almost three times as likely to be incarcerated than the sons of mothers who delay childbearing until their early 20s. Decreasing teenage pregnancy or providing comprehensive support to teenage mothers and their children could mitigate these risks. Hill also points to studies that majority of violent crimes are perpetrated by a small number of violent offenders. It's estimated that 2% of the population is responsible for over 56% of homicides, according to the Crime Prevention Resource Center.
Speaker 1:If we want a solution. This 2% of the population can decrease over half of the homicides in America. We can invest the resources in that specific population if we truly want to do that.
Speaker 7:And Hill says solutions to start early by identifying warning signs at a young age, before kids ever become a part of the juvenile justice system and end up in juvenile detention centers.
Speaker 1:Nearly 80 percent of all of those youth males in juvenile detention facilities right now have multiple elementary school suspension. That's the trigger point that when these kids are suspended in elementary school and we don't do anything about it, we bring them back. They're not rehabilitated. So what if we give those kids the intensive support that they need? Because what I'm telling you right now, if you fix that, you're going to decrease the problems within the juvenile detention facility when you address that. So what we have to do is unravel all of these causes that's leading to these negative effects.
Speaker 1:That's a huge deal. For me is to make sure that we're giving our kids what they need, but but we're not. And then we're paying for them to go to prison, but they haven't been raised and haven't been trained and we're holding them accountable for it, because why they didn't have parents, they didn't have mentors, they didn't have the people, and we as a community must address that accordingly, because that's the structure that we've been breaking down, that I'm saying that has been the foundation of the community that I'm saying that has been the foundation of the community.
Speaker 7:One of Hill's latest projects is bringing a Meta24 Learning Center to Little Rock on the campus of Arkansas Baptist College. The Meta24 curriculum creates makerspaces that help develop technology skills and learn entrepreneurship. Part of the program includes bringing in kids from juvenile detention centers. The program also assesses the needs of local employers and provides young people with transferable job skills. We'll have more on Meta24 in later episodes. For Smart Justice I'm Kendall Bruce. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Juvenile prosecutors handle cases involving teens who break the law. They're often seen as gatekeepers who decide which juveniles should be charged. In recent years, though, their role has expanded from solely reacting to crime to actively engaging in strategies to prevent it. In Pulaski County, Arkansas, Juvenile Division Chief Casey Beard balances courtroom duties with community engagement. Her work provides valuable insight into trends in juvenile crime. Beard says she's seen a noticeable and alarming shift in the types of offenses young people are committing.
Speaker 2:We have gone from what I would consider more youthful offenses misdemeanors, petty kind of things within the schools and within our community to what feels like a community surrounded by guns and engaging in violence. There are a lot of property crimes as well, and it tends to be youth looking for guns and looking for the things that they can make fast money on.
Speaker 4:Beard says that just having a gun in their possession is putting many young lives at risk.
Speaker 2:When they do that, they are putting themselves in harm's way as well, because there's no telling when the community or law enforcement would have to take any action that could hurt them as well.
Speaker 4:She says there's been a rise in the number of ghost guns. These are 3D-printed guns that can look and operate like commercially manufactured ones. She explains that social media has amplified violence and has made it harder to prosecute some crimes. What used to happen privately among kids now reaches a far larger audience.
Speaker 2:That is disrespecting somebody way more publicly than just in the halls of the school. They are touching other people everywhere by that public display of violence and the rap music that has a lot of diss-type behaviors in it and the holding of guns and weapons, but us not being able to prove that that's what they had possession of, because you can't tell from looking at a video if it is an assault pistol, you know, or a BB gun of some sort, and so that has added a whole different dynamic.
Speaker 4:And with it comes the glorification of guns, and also the young people creating the content.
Speaker 2:They are small town. You know heroes and they're small town celebrities. People can't wait for those songs to drop so they can hear what somebody is saying. And you don't disrespect people like that and not think that there's not going to be some retaliation. And it almost feels like terrorism on some levels. You know more domestic type terrorism, but not a great way to prosecute that or go forward on it. And in the whole grand scheme of things, I'm not sure that the prosecution of it is what solves it either. I mean, it's got to happen more on a community level.
Speaker 4:Beard hasn't always been a prosecutor. She spent many years on the other side of the table as a public defender defending juveniles accused of crimes, she says. While she misses getting to work with each child individually, she sees her role today as going beyond helping one child at a time going beyond helping one child at a time.
Speaker 2:You can work for what would have been good and right for that kid and work on making better whatever led to that child being there with you and you can work on the greater good and not just what that one person needs. We are simultaneously trying to have an effort to help turn off the faucet and help the community so that we have less to prosecute one day. We do not want that to be interpreted as us saying that we're going to go easy on crime that has occurred or try to somehow start you know, being too kind to the people that have done wrong to others. It is a start way before then. It's the start of the early intervention, the prevention. That upstream focus is where we're trying to have a simultaneous impact, and shame on a prosecutor if we're not focusing on both, because we're just living in a world of reaction and that is not going to ever solve anything for any one person that is before us. If we have a dual obligation and then that obligation has to start way before the crime.
Speaker 4:Beard collaborates with various community organizations to implement early intervention initiatives and support families in need. She stresses the importance of identifying at-risk children and families as early as possible.
Speaker 2:Part of what we are trying to work on is that we never miss a contact. We never miss a chance to pour in. So finding those earliest contacts and making sure that we have been able to wrap something around that point and I don't know that, I'm talking about just the normal ones. I mean, I think the pediatrician's office for wellness visits is an early point of contact. I think the welfare office is where we're getting the little well checks so that people get their formula and they get their, you know, the food stamps and things like that.
Speaker 2:I think all of those are important points of contact that if someone is showing evidence of struggling, that that's a good place for us to have poured into them in the prevention side so that we are giving them the tools and linking them to the assistance that could make them stronger right then, rather than waiting until there's a crime.
Speaker 2:So I'm not really talking about the year before a crime's committed, I'm talking about the 10 years before the crime's committed, if we had a point of contact back when that child was an infant and we could tell that the mom was struggling because of what her needs were or because of her, you know lack of ability to get her child to pre-K on time every day or her lack of ability to hold down a job, then we're missing a point of contact by not having taught those contacts how to help the family, versus just doing the paperwork and pushing it off, if that makes sense. So, starting before the crime to me starts I mean at the point where these babies are born, and making sure that we have set that generation right there, with that infant, up for success.
Speaker 4:Beard says solutions have to come from within the community. She notes that prosecution may address immediate incidents but it doesn't tackle the root causes of juvenile crime and is not a balanced approach.
Speaker 2:Because every day we're going to have better technology, new things are going to be invented. People are very innovative and so they will come up with something. If we put a stop to it legally, they'll come up with a different way to make it all happen. And so it isn't there, it's in mindsets, and it's in morals and values and community and relations. In every circle you go in. You could have an advocate for that parallel focus of turning off the faucet while we still react to things. So we cannot do harm by trying to turn off a faucet, so why not do it as?
Speaker 5:well, hopefully we're going to help a whole lot, thank you. Can develop strategies to best support those in need in their area and track outcome data.
Speaker 4:In Central Arkansas. The North Little Rock Academy provides an alternative learning environment for students, grades 6 through 12 who struggle in traditional settings. The students are at risk due to factors like trauma, homelessness, behavioral issues or early parenthood. Several are already involved in the juvenile justice system. Some haven't gone to school for a few years. The goal is to get them back on track towards graduation. Director Sandy Williams says his own experience growing up in poverty fuels his passion for being a positive role model in their lives.
Speaker 3:I've seen kids turn around. I've seen kids graduate from high school. I've seen kids go into college. I've seen kids go to the military. I've seen kids do well for themselves and I love the idea of just being able to play a part, a role in someone's life.
Speaker 4:Alternative Education Academies also support students with their responsibilities beyond the classroom. Several students have jobs so their families can make ends meet. Williams helped them juggle both school and employment, sometimes negotiating with their employers so that they can balance working with pursuing their studies. Teachers and staff in alternative learning environments often engage in home visits or other forms of direct communication with parents or guardians. These visits are part of a broader strategy to ensure students receive consistent support both at school and at home. William says his work often involves a multi-generational approach.
Speaker 3:The kids just need. They need assistance. I mean some kids that we deal with. Unfortunately, their parents are in a predicament. You know they're on the same plane. You know they're raising a friend rather than a child. They're on the same plane, they're raising a friend rather than a child and, as a result, we find ourselves having to parent the child and parent the parent in the education system to try to help that total family. Not only just that family, sometimes it's three generations. But we're trying to meet with grandpa and grandma and everyone else, because in order for me to meet that kid's need, I've got to change their mindset, or grandmama, and in turn she can change mama's mindset and in turn we can work together to help this kid get better. That's how you help a kid get better. You've got to be willing to reach back those two, three generations in order to make a difference with them.
Speaker 4:He encourages parents to take an active role in their child's education and development.
Speaker 3:He shares strategies for supporting their learning and giving them structure strategies for supporting their learning and giving them structure, trying to can't be out in the corner all night long, trying to have to have to come on, get in the bed, get some sleep and get ready for school, and that conversation that we're having actively constantly with parents and students in order to help them be successful in school. So we make agreement, like, okay, so how about you don't smoke in the same room with your child, whatever you're smoking? How about you don't put the kid in the car on the way to school and smoke? How about if your kid don't have to sell drugs for you? They can come home at a certain time? So you got to make a partnership.
Speaker 4:William says that he has concerns about our education system. He would like a greater focus on financially supporting education, especially for at-risk students, so that we're taking a more positive approach and engaging in prevention. He points out that sending a troubled youth to a detention facility comes with a hefty price tag of $320 per day.
Speaker 3:We are paying more to incarcerate kids than we are to educate those same kids. Funding is being spent, but it's being spent on the back end. We've got to get ahead of this situation. Education is a pathway to victory, a pathway to a new way, a new lifestyle.
Speaker 4:Williams says that he's concerned about discipline practices in traditional schools, especially suspensions. He says suspensions can set a student on a path towards involvement in the juvenile justice system.
Speaker 3:When we put them out of school, we open the opportunity for them to get in trouble. You come to school in high school and you're suspended, put out of school in high school. Where do you go? You go to crime. You're breaking people's cars. You're breaking people's houses. You steal, you rob, you do all those things. We have to provide opportunity for our kids. That's how we lower the crime rate.
Speaker 3:But there has to be an alternate placement for a kid that you have to remove from the city. Your kids shouldn't just have not anywhere for the kid to go. The school provides structure for you. If you are home alone, who provides the structure for you? You do whatever you want to do and you don't have to teach people how to do wrong. You got to teach people how to do right. So we got to have some alternate educational program. I'm not talking about just alternative education, but we have to have alternate education program. Community program, community centers, churches have to pay a pro day. This kid can't go to school for 10 days. He's not assigned home 10 days. He's assigned to the community intervention program. He's assigned to the church intervention program where they have educators there who are still working with that child individually. They keep that child where he needs to be to be successful, because when your mind is out of and your body is busy, you always get in trouble.
Speaker 4:He's also a believer in year-round schooling. He says it helps prevent learning loss and can provide more regular access to supportive services such as meals, counseling and special education programs, which are crucial for at-risk students.
Speaker 3:Kids are at home, unsupervised by themselves, so it becomes a safety issue. It's a crime issue, it's a safety issue, it's a social, economic issue, it's a humanity issue, it's a generational curse, and so in order to break that, we've got to open those doors to the school on a daily basis, year-round. But not only that. The school's got to come outside of the schoolhouse and get into somebody's house, and we can do that. I think we can turn this thing around.
Speaker 4:He says churches are among the organizations he thinks could play an important role in helping keep kids safe and educated.
Speaker 3:There's a church on every corner and there's a kid in that community on every corner, so the kid is in the community. You don't even have to bus a kid. All you have to do is mandate. Okay, I'm going to get into church and books, we're going to send a teacher to the church and Johnny's going to be at school From 8 to 3. He just can't come to this school and so Johnny may have a 10 day suspension Out of the standard setting. But Johnny needs education. Johnny needs to still have food, johnny needs to have social care. Johnny still has social care and we can provide that in community organizations all around the city, in every city.
Speaker 4:Without action, williams cautions, the relentless cycles of crime, imprisonment and tragedy will continue.
Speaker 3:You see kids and they don't make it. And you've been working with them and they don't make it. And you pour into them and they don't make it. And then you've got working with them and they don't make it. You pour into them and they don't make it. And then you got to go to a funeral and you got to write somebody a letter about spending the rest of their life in prison. And then the next day you got to show up at work and I think that's probably a heartbreaker in this work that we do. But you know, but it's tough.
Speaker 3:You know I lost a couple kids this year. I lost one kid this year. He and his first cousin, 7th, 8th grader, got killed together and I had talked to him, like that, friday before he got killed on Sunday and I talked to him on Friday and I was telling him you know, I need you to do this and do that because what you're doing is going. He said I'm going to get together with Mr Wheaton, but he didn't get a chance to get together. You know those are stories that hurt you. But then you got to show back up to school, you know, with the rest of the kids and say we're young. I need you to do this because you're still another kid on that same path and you're just trying to do everything you can to keep that kid from being down that road. I want them to live. They deserve to live. Too many of them are dying.
Speaker 4:He says entire communities need to become invested in the problem.
Speaker 3:You may not see it as your problem now because of where you are and where you live, but if you don't address this problem and you don't get and you don't care enough to get these kids help, they're going to grow to be your problem. So you can address it now, where it's not your problem, or try to address it when it becomes your problem, but once it becomes a problem, it's harder to address it then. The bottom line is they are not criminals, they're kids, because any kid can get off path. So our responsibility is to take these kids and get them back on path. If you don't address it now, you will be addressing it at some point, and so we got to care enough to address it. We're going backwards. The opportunity to act is right now. What we learn about every kid is that they can learn, though, and in the right setting they will learn.
Speaker 4:Coming up on the next episode of Smart Justice, we visit the city of Fort Smith, Arkansas, to learn about a new initiative that's changing policing.
Speaker 7:Some people believe if DHS or the police or somebody coming at home, they're going to take your kids and you know they're scared of that.
Speaker 8:The Smart Justice Podcast is a production of the nonprofit Restore Hope. Visit smartjusticeorg to read the magazine, as well as extensive coverage of community meetings on justice system-related issues. Our coverage is solutions-oriented, focusing on the innovative ways in which communities are solving issues and the lessons being learned as a result of successes and challenges. That's smartjusticeorg. There you can also sign up for the Smart Justice newsletter so you never miss the latest headlines. And please support us by leaving a rating and review.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
