Upstream - The Opportunity in District Courts S2E1

Many Arkansans in prison and/or with children in the child welfare system started their legal engagement with misdemeanor crimes like traffic tickets, driving with no insurance, or theft. Some District Court Judges are taking steps to provide access to services that address root issues that might lead to incarceration and/or foster care for their children. 

Season 2 focuses on how these courts are improving public safety by addressing problems 'upstream' from felony crime and/or foster care. It is our hope that these stories will inspire a movement to make Community Diversion common in Arkansas' District Courts. 

Some data pulled from existing programs show the impact to individuals. This data is only a sample of the participants in the courts known to us. A formal pilot is desired to use the same metrics to assess impact and ROI of Diversion programs. 

Of 529 families served in the past three years where the parent(s) had their driver's license suspended due to a court issue, 

31% also had a child welfare case of some kind.  
- Families that are struggling to pay court fees and fines often find themselves in additional trouble with child welfare systems.  One crisis often leads to another.  

61% were unemployed with no income from any source.
- Payment of fees or fines is exceedingly difficult and usually a lower priority than shelter, food, or escape through substances. 
 
31% had misused drugs or alcohol in the past 30 days and were in need of recovery support

Engagement by case managers and connection to community provides had the following outcomes:

48% decrease in the percentage of families in legal crisis with a warrant out for their arrest.  
Almost 100 of these parents were able to completely stabilize their legal situation, becoming current on their fees and fines.

155% increased transportation stability (reliable/legal transportation).

 89% increase in full-time employment.

Transcript

00;00;06;03 - 00;00;28;14
Ed Lowry
Imagine a scene a group of friends is taking a hike along a stream. Suddenly, the piece of nature is disrupted by the cries of an infant. Frantically, the group searches and realizes the baby is floating down the rushing river. Splashing into the water, the group forms a chain, takes hold of the baby, and with no little effort to brings the child safe to shore.

00;00;28;27 - 00;00;58;17
Ed Lowry
But no sooner are they on the bank, than another infant screams from the rapids. Back in the water, they go. The second child brought to safety. Then there comes another. And another. And another. Exhausted. The group keeps diving back in the water, until one of them takes off running. “Where are you going?” someone yells. “I'm going upstream. We need to stop these babies from falling in the river.”

00;01;02;17 - 00;01;10;21
Charles Newsom
This is season two, episode one of the Smart Justice Podcast - Going Upstream.

00;01;11;14 - 00;01;17;28
Paul Chapman
Crime and Punishment are hot topics. Are their solutions different than what we're hearing about at national level?

00;01;18;02 - 00;01;25;13
Judge Amy Grimes
They're trying to stop that cycle so that we don't see their children. They don't see them in juvenile court. We don't see them headed to circuit court.

00;01;25;21 - 00;01;32;10
Chief Jammie Hammond
We give someone a traffic ticket and they're scared. They can't pay that ticket. And what do they do? They don't show up for court. They think it's going to go away. Well it doesn’t go away.

00;01;32;24 - 00;01;39;06
Judge Charles Baker
It's not about the court bringing in that money. It's about helping that person avoid this kind of problem in the future.

00;01;39;06 - 00;01;44;19
Paul Chapman
There is a different way to approach justice that has better return on investment.

00;01;44;20 - 00;01;51;26
Sheriff Phillip Miller
The bad people need to be in jail and stay there. Folks that are suffering from just social ills, they don’t need to be here.

00;01;51;26 - 00;02;00;04
Paul Chapman
That seems to strengthen both law enforcement and courts and tie that together with community resource.

00;02;00;09 - 00;02;07;25
Judge Amy Grimes
That's what makes it worthwhile. That little bit of extra time you spend working on it. If you can't do a little mercy when you're here, then it's not worth being here.

00;02;08;03 - 00;02;19;03
Paul Chapman
And then track the impact to communities and better outcomes. And we're calling this approach Smart Justice.

00;02;22;22 - 00;02;42;14
Ed Lowry
Smart Justice is a work of Restore Hope and partner organizations. Restore Hope as a software and services organization that helps communities achieve better outcomes for justice and child welfare efforts. Smart Justice is focused on optimizing the system by improving the relationships among its parts.

00;02;45;12 - 00;03;11;16
Paul Chapman
Welcome to the second season of the Smart Justice Podcast. In this season we're going to be moving upstream to see if there are ways that we can engage people and divert the probable slide into incarceration and foster care and other situations that are so complex that their outcomes are not good of putting their family back together and getting on to career paths and independence.

00;03;11;29 - 00;03;32;18
Paul Chapman
And so in season two, we're going to focus on the opportunity that we have to engage individuals in district courts. To help us understand the justice system around courts, I'm joined by, really an Arkansas legend, Betty Dickey. Betty, welcome and thanks for joining us today.

00;03;32;26 - 00;03;34;14
Betty Dickey
Thank you, Paul. It's good to be here.

00;03;34;24 - 00;03;46;09
Paul Chapman
So, Betty, let's just walk a little bit through kind of your history. I understand that you were a prosecutor. You started your your work in courts as a prosecutor.

00;03;46;18 - 00;04;05;02
Betty Dickey
I did. Actually I started as a teacher. And then I worked as one of the city attorneys in Pine Bluff, the city attorney at Ridgeville, and then on to be the first elected prosecuting attorney in the state. And in Eleven West which is Pine Bluff, Jefferson and Lincoln Counties.

00;04;05;16 - 00;04;06;07
Paul Chapman
When was this?

00;04;06;21 - 00;04;08;28
Betty Dickey
It was in 1994.

00;04;10;08 - 00;04;27;06
Paul Chapman
In 94. And so the nineties saw a sharp rise in crime, violent crime across the nation. And definitely here in central Arkansas. That's about the time that, you know, Banging in the Rock happened with the gang problems here. Was that similar in Pine Bluff?

00;04;27;13 - 00;05;00;02
Betty Dickey
Yes. And actually, we were having more homicides the first year that I was in office than Little Rock was. And it was was it was a challenging time. I served as prosecuting attorney for two years and then went to work in the state in different areas. The Public Service Commission, I was the governor’s chief counsel, and then the governor appointed me twice to be on the first as the chief justice and then as an associate justice on the Supreme Court.

00;05;00;15 - 00;05;09;04
Paul Chapman
Understanding is you were not only the first female prosecuting attorney, but also the first female chief justice of the Supreme Court in Arkansas.

00;05;09;07 - 00;05;27;04
Betty Dickey
Yes. And the first chief of staff. The first chief of staff for the the governor, the first woman. It was you know, and I didn't realize some of those times when I ran that no other woman had tried. So it was it was an interesting time.

00;05;28;16 - 00;05;44;14
Paul Chapman
Well, thanks so much for lending your wisdom and experience to this conversation here. Before we talk about district court, can you kind of give us an education on how the court systems work with the legislator and the executive branch?

00;05;44;23 - 00;06;17;27
Betty Dickey
Well, just as nationally, in a state level, there are three branches of government the executive, judicial and legislative. And I'm sure you're familiar with those different circumstances. But these courts all work under the judicial system. The state Supreme Court, the state court of appeals, the state circuit courts and the district courts, which when I was practicing, were called municipal courts and city courts.

00;06;18;14 - 00;06;25;00
Betty Dickey
So that's the the different areas, but it's the district court, I think, that you're interested in talking about.

00;06;25;08 - 00;06;55;29
Paul Chapman
We, you know, kind of through our work, what we're making a kind of claim here is, is that in these misdemeanor courts, these district courts, we can find individuals who are in trouble in need of engagement. And if properly done, could help divert them from what looks likely to be a slide into maybe circuit courts and into felony prosecution and child welfare cases for them.

00;06;56;19 - 00;07;18;22
Betty Dickey
Yes. If you look at diversion instead of just how hard the punishment is going to be, then you give them an opportunity to fix the problems that they have while they're still small. Same way with teenagers. You know, if you can handle it at home or or in schools, then the courts don't have to try to start dealing with those problems.

00;07;19;20 - 00;07;32;00
Paul Chapman
In your experience or any statistics that you've looked at, is there typically kind of a progression to severities of crimes that individuals, I'd say, on average commit.

00;07;32;28 - 00;08;07;05
Betty Dickey
Well, there is a progression. When I was doing the misdemeanor prosecutions from district court, municipal court, the juvenile court, some of the kids ten, 12 years old had rap sheets as long as your arm, you know, you think how how, how did it get to be this bad, this soon? But you have parents that are doing drugs and grandmothers taking care of them and, you know, schools can't handle it.

00;08;07;05 - 00;08;10;01
Betty Dickey
So they go into the system, you know, early.

00;08;10;15 - 00;08;33;14
Paul Chapman
Yeah, I think you are familiar with some of the judges that are running community diversion programs all the way up to kind of fully sanctioned alternative courts in misdemeanor courts like a DUI court. Can can you just share your thoughts on the opportunity that that's there to do that kind of diversion?

00;08;33;24 - 00;09;05;24
Betty Dickey
Well, more and more courts and very few were doing that at the time I served or are using things like diversion as far as alcohol or drug treatment to, you know, reduce the problems or to fix the problems while they're still fixable without not just jail time, but without prison time, which, you know, destroys the family, the family unit and particularly is hard for children.

00;09;05;24 - 00;09;14;07
Charles Newsom
One district court offering alternatives is in Van Buren, Arkansas, where Judge Charles Baker seeks to find options to give people an off ramp.

00;09;14;16 - 00;09;36;17
Judge Charles Baker
Well we've always had a philosophy here that we not only want to take care of whatever problem someone has in court immediately, we want to have a situation where they don't have to come back to court either about that particular case or about a case in the future. And so sometimes the easier solution would be just to put somebody in jail and say, well, we closed this case, we can mark it off our books.

00;09;36;27 - 00;10;00;27
Judge Charles Baker
But that doesn't help them prevent future occurrences where they end up back in the court system. And so when I first took the bench, we decided that we were going to try some innovative things to see if we could provide some alternatives to people that would help them with their employment situations, help them financially, help their family. If there were either mental health issues, substance abuse issues.

00;10;01;16 - 00;10;29;22
Judge Charles Baker
Just try to be a one stop source for people to get help no matter what their situation. And so from a judge's perspective, what that meant to me immediately was, was that I can't look to jail as a first alternative. I can't assess fines in every situation and expect that someone who's unemployed or underemployed or someone who's not able to buy groceries for their family is going to be able to pay a fine in my court.

00;10;30;06 - 00;10;44;10
Judge Charles Baker
And so we initially got together with our county adult education program and we said we want to try to find some solutions so that people can position themselves better in the future so they don't end up back in court.

00;10;44;10 - 00;10;56;18
Charles Newsom
In some cases, courts specialized and are able to offer specific here to people looking for alternatives to fines or jail time. Judge Wendy Shermun in Fort Smith oversees just such a court.

00;10;57;21 - 00;11;35;15
Judge Wendy Sherum
I run the DWI court and we have we just had approval for our DWI court. So I began running that January 1st of 2021. We now have a probation officer. So when we see people who have a DWI two or higher and sometimes a DWI one, but we won't get into that right now. We have them talk to the probation officer and then we can also have public defenders or defense attorneys who refer people for DWI court, and then they're assessed. If they meet the qualifications in the prosecutor's approval.

00;11;36;10 - 00;11;39;18
Paul Chapman
And so how does the court actually operate?

00;11;39;19 - 00;12;00;27
Judge Wendy Sherum
We are a five phase court. And right now it's taking people between 13 to 16 months to complete. It can actually go over if they need to, because by the time they bought in and they're that close to graduation, they are not going over whatever time period we've got. I haven't had anybody complete within one year, although I'm hoping that might happen.

00;12;01;10 - 00;12;23;04
Judge Wendy Sherum
It's a five phase program. It's intensive and they have a lot of things that they have to do. They have to report. They have to have stable housing. They have to have a stable job. And we start to repair relationships. We refer them to be assessed through adult education. And they have to report into the probation officer. They have therapy sessions and group meetings.

00;12;23;18 - 00;12;25;14
Judge Wendy Sherum
And so there's a lot that they have to do.

00;12;26;16 - 00;12;27;26
Paul Chapman
What's their motivation?

00;12;28;21 - 00;12;52;26
Judge Wendy Sherum
It usually begins with getting out of jail time. That's can be usually around 14 days for a DWI to and 90 days for DWI three. But once they buy into the program, then it's about protecting those sobriety dates. They're seeing that their life is changing and they're putting relationships back in place. They're doing better in their jobs, they're feeling better physically.

00;12;53;05 - 00;13;10;01
Judge Wendy Sherum
And so they start to buy in and it becomes about something better than that. So we're okay if they say, I just want to avoid the jail time, I want to do this court because we always, always see a turnaround. I haven't had a graduate who's come through yet that hasn't had their life changed.

00;13;12;06 - 00;13;42;23
Paul Chapman
There seem to be two competing ideas on the national level around criminal justice reform and one seems to be we need to understand and engage people to try to take care of the underlying problems, but they tend to be pretty negative against law enforcement and the courts. And the other side tends to be to be very tough on long sentences and quick action against criminals.

00;13;43;00 - 00;14;10;14
Paul Chapman
So bad behavior. And I think what we're proposing is something that's down the middle is we this diversion is not soft on crime or hard on crime. It addresses bad behavior, but gives opportunities to individuals to make corrective action. There's always an out. Well, what would you say? Because I don't I don't think any one could ever charge you with ever being soft on crime.

00;14;10;25 - 00;14;38;26
Betty Dickey
Exactly. You know, and and yet, as with the years of being a prosecutor and a judge and then more recently having an opportunity to go to go into the prisons and teach classes, you see that there are there are some people in prison that are nicer than I deal with, in the free world. And you think they they show remorse.

00;14;38;26 - 00;15;08;29
Betty Dickey
They've done things for rehabilitation to be able to get a job if, if and when they get out of prison and, you know, and are working toward restorative justice, being able to be live again in the free world and may be contributing members, and you see some of those when you go in and teach in this in, you know, other justices, Bob Brown and Headstart taught in the prison.

00;15;09;20 - 00;15;33;02
Betty Dickey
And you see that these people, if given an opportunity, would have never come here. But given an opportunity, you know, to find a job, do some of their sentence, take Pell Grants, you know, and let you know, live a life that entitles them to be free. You see some of those.

00;15;33;11 - 00;15;40;29
Charles Newsom
Judge Sarah Capp of the district courts in Franklin and Jefferson Counties offer opportunities for people to take those different paths.

00;15;41;09 - 00;16;12;22
Judge Sarah Capp
So in January of 2021, we began the court referral program and in that program we have individuals that can and on their own initiative, they can choose whether or not they would like to complete a program to get credit off of their fines and their cost. There are normally three components of the program. We have adult ed and through adult ed, they can get work certificates, they can obtain a GED or a number of different trainings that are available through adult ed.

00;16;12;22 - 00;16;37;20
Judge Sarah Capp
They can also partake in counseling. And we work with the guidance center and also counseling associates, and then also just pure community service or a combination of the three. We are working on trying to identify people before court that know that they need financial assistance. We're working to expand that now. We have recently printed out a number of brochures to make that information available.

00;16;37;20 - 00;16;57;28
Judge Sarah Capp
We also have a television within the courtroom and then that shows information as far as what the program consist of. When people come up to the podium, once I call their name, a lot of times they'll ask, you know, can I participate in a program to get credit off my bonds and calls? Because through word of mouth, they have learned that they can do that.

00;16;58;24 - 00;17;16;15
Betty Dickey
People who some who learn their lessons early and you can help them get back on their feet again and some that have to suffer years and years of prison time. But we can't build enough prisons for all these people that need to go at this point.

00;17;17;14 - 00;17;37;06
Paul Chapman
The drug use seems to be with technology. There's become synthetics and different ways of delivering that. You know, even after decades of fighting the supply side, which I think we need to continue to do, but it just a it's so easy to get drugs now.

00;17;38;13 - 00;17;52;02
Betty Dickey
Well, and you get drugs or you get alcohol, another drug and act foolish and you kill someone and then your problems are almost insurmountable. You're going to prison for a long time.

00;17;52;18 - 00;18;15;18
Paul Chapman
You know, I think that's one of the things that I'm I'm thinking about is you may have someone that's not necessarily a predator, but is engaging in bad behavior for whatever reason. It could be a myriad of reasons. But many people are engaging in bad behavior, I think, to cope with trouble in their lives where they may have some misery, things aren't working out for them like they wish.

00;18;15;18 - 00;18;39;00
Paul Chapman
And then while you're using drugs or alcohol, you do dumb things. You know, it's so difficult to help someone after they've done 4 years and 11 months on average and in an Arkansas prison and they don't have a driver's license and they may not have job skills and they're fighting an addiction and they don't have an apartment. And that's a very difficult set of circumstances to help someone out of.

00;18;39;00 - 00;18;47;25
Paul Chapman
And I think we should help. But if we can prevent someone from ever getting into that, that situation, then that would be good investments made.

00;18;48;06 - 00;19;23;23
Betty Dickey
Absolutely. You know, it's just you can't I've tried to help fix a problem for one people who's one people, one person who's incarcerated. And it is so challenging to try to help them. I can't imagine what it's like to. And yet you've found systems in different towns and cities in Arkansas, a groups of people who are willing to, you know, surround these people with the help they need.

00;19;24;13 - 00;19;37;07
Charles Newsom
When those systems of help are in place, people begin to realize help comes in ways they didn't expect, sush as a judge or police officer. Sergeant Jason MacGlawn, of the Searcy police department.

00;19;37;17 - 00;19;56;11
Sergeant Jason MacGlawn
And I've run into, I think, five or six people in the last four or five months that I've previously arrested. And they've come up to me and said, Hey, I know it was horrible that time and you arrested me, took me to jail. But that got me started on that road to recovery. And that's something that I'd never really had before.

00;19;56;11 - 00;20;11;09
Sergeant Jason MacGlawn
I had like one or two people through like nine and a half years that they come up and said, Hey, thank you for that. But I've had so many people last four months that I'm like,

00;20;11;14 - 00;20;12;09
Sergeant Jason MacGlawn
Wow, if we can do that and actually get those in need more help to get that process started before

00;20;12;19 - 00;20;23;26
Sergeant Jason MacGlawn
They have to get through all that. That's that's what really impacted me. But seeing how where they were at the time of the arrest and where they are right now and just saying, hey, I had a tiny little portion that It’s been real, real uplifting for it.

00;20;24;04 - 00;20;50;14
Paul Chapman
You know, it's always one of my favorite things is to find someone who's who's led a life kind of on the other side of the law. So they're a client of ours, and we introduce them to law enforcement and the judges and and other people willing to help them. And invariably, every one of them will go, especially when they're talking the law enforcement or someone like you, a judge.

00;20;50;14 - 00;20;52;28
Paul Chapman
You're like, I always thought y'all were against me.

00;20;53;09 - 00;21;17;14
Betty Dickey
That's exactly what the woman in prison the first time I taught this Bible study in prison at Wrightsville said, What are you doing here? You're you know, you're a judge. You're not supposed to be down here. I don't trust you. And things have changed. You know, these are good people who've made mistakes and they're paying for them and some paying dearly.

00;21;18;11 - 00;21;37;26
Betty Dickey
And we can help these people that the you know, have remorse, you know, work at rehabilitation, personal and profession or jobs are, you know, plumbers, electricians.

00;21;38;04 - 00;21;41;05
Paul Chapman
Truck drivers. We need as much truck drivers. It only takes a month.

00;21;41;05 - 00;22;14;22
Betty Dickey
One one of the this woman in prison, it appears, will qualify for a309 program. She's a good cook now at McPherson. And, you know, she has a job for when she gets out. Yeah, that's good news. I think that 75 to 90% of the people can be rehabilitated and there's a better chance as you get them earlier and earlier And not having a system that just punishes.

00;22;15;10 - 00;22;51;08
Paul Chapman
I couldn't agree with you more especially in the progression. Just in 17 years of kind of doing this and trying to help people? And I've run into a few folks that I mean, truly, I mean to my soul scared me. But most people what I've seen is a progression of a descent into chaos and crises. And and if we could have intervened they may not have taken it here, but they may have here.

00;22;51;08 - 00;23;18;05
Paul Chapman
There was enough pain and opportunity or we approached. Right. But but that that's one of the things that, you know, before I breathe my last I'd love to be able to see in Arkansas it's there's you know that we've moved far enough upstream that we prevent a lot of the downstream things from folks that are just in awful situations and are doing bad things.

00;23;18;13 - 00;23;30;11
Betty Dickey
I mean, this is paying it forward. This is what you do. But you're right upstream, if we can deal with it, there that what we want to do.

00;23;30;20 - 00;24;00;08
Paul Chapman
What I have seen, you know, in Arkansas over 17 years is a move for more options. I I've had many law enforcement officers and judges tell us as we've been doing the Restore Hope programs, helping communities start 100 families say, you know, law enforcement officers and government caseworkers, whether they be child welfare or probation and then parole officers, they all have a certain amount of discretion.

00;24;00;28 - 00;24;03;28
Paul Chapman
But the officers I talked to say we've never had options.

00;24;04;12 - 00;24;12;13
Betty Dickey
No, And I'm sure they’re happy with these diversion techniques because they are so limited.

00;24;13;03 - 00;24;21;10
Paul Chapman
And judges like a district court judge, you you have two tools. You have you can fine someone.

00;24;23;06 - 00;24;23;18
Betty Dickey
or put her in jail.

00;24;23;18 - 00;24;34;10
Paul Chapman
Or put her in jail. And those are the two tools you have to get behavior to change or compliance with with the law or to pay for crime committed.

00;24;35;09 - 00;24;36;12
Charles Newsom
White County Sheriff Phillip Miller.

00;24;36;20 - 00;24;43;17
Sheriff Phillip Miller
Bad people need to be in jail where bad people belong, people that have.

00;24;43;17 - 00;24;46;25
Sheriff Phillip Miller
Never learned any different, that have never seen any different.

00;24;47;03 - 00;25;09;02
Sheriff Phillip Miller
That want to do good, they don't need to be in my jail. People that are really suffering with mental health issues that this is a convenient place to get for them to get dropped. They don't need to be in my jail. You know, they need the resources like what's being provided. And that's what I see different.

00;25;09;02 - 00;25;19;15
Sheriff Phillip Miller
It's not I'm soft on crime. It's not, Oh, you know, we know the bad people need to be in jail and stay there. But folks.

00;25;19;20 - 00;25;20;08
Sheriff Phillip Miller
That are.

00;25;20;08 - 00;25;22;04
Sheriff Phillip Miller
Suffering from from things like.

00;25;22;04 - 00;25;24;03
Sheriff Phillip Miller
This, from just social ills, that they've.

00;25;24;07 - 00;25;25;08
Sheriff Phillip Miller
They've never seen a.

00;25;25;08 - 00;25;27;06
Sheriff Phillip Miller
Different way. They don't need to be here.

00;25;27;13 - 00;25;49;21
Paul Chapman
And so if we can bring these community diversion, these options to the judges, then what we have seen is both law enforcement and judges who are very, very pleased and they start taking those they even start innovating around them. It gives them the ability to do what they want to do anyway as a judge, which is to make their community better.

00;25;50;10 - 00;26;02;03
Paul Chapman
What we really ultimately would love to do is to be able to get enough options as to law enforcement and judges, you know, in the next ten years that we're not looking in 10 to 15 years building another prison.

00;26;02;14 - 00;26;03;20
Betty Dickey
Yeah. Or soon than that.

00;26;04;21 - 00;26;09;05
Paul Chapman
If you could make some changes, have you thought about the types of things that you would like to see?

00;26;09;16 - 00;26;55;15
Betty Dickey
Well, the the diversion at the district level, you know, to to have the facilities and the personnel to divert alcohol and drug users. You know, you talk about suspended license and things like that to have a a volunteer system that will do what you are mentioning about calling and saying you have a court appearance on this day, you know, just sort of automatic notification. Those are simple things, but those are much easier than paying millions and millions of dollars for a prison bed space.

00;26;56;15 - 00;27;07;21
Charles Newsom
Failure to appear charges led Richard Chambless to build up considerable fines, but also put him on the radar of a case manager in the White County 100 families alliance.

00;27;09;16 - 00;27;31;20
Richard Chambless
First appearance meeting 100 families was actually in the courtroom whenever I was having a hard time paying fines. He was about to issue jail time, but he asked me if I wanted to meet with this new group he heard about. It was in the courtroom called 100 Families. I went over there and met with them, and they actually started helping me at that point to pretty much reform my entire life from where I was at to where I should have been.

00;27;32;00 - 00;27;34;23
Paul Chapman
What did they say that made you want to talk with them?

00;27;35;17 - 00;27;52;25
Richard Chambless
Pretty much whenever the judge asked if there is any asked if I had children under 18 living in the house, which I did. So he sent me over to them and they pretty much told me that they could work with me to keep me out of jail. And that was the first step, was getting all my warrants taken care of and staying out of jail.

00;27;53;10 - 00;28;00;03
Richard Chambless
So they offered the assistance and I had nowhere else to turn but jail, so reluctantly actually asked for help.

00;28;00;16 - 00;28;06;11
Paul Chapman
So how did you come to court? I guess he had a FTA. I had to get pulled over and go.

00;28;06;11 - 00;28;34;04
Richard Chambless
I had several FTAs. It started out with no insurance was the very first thing. And then it started going from there to Failure to Appears. Then I got caught driving again without it, because once you get a failure to appear, you don't have a license. They suspend it. So I got caught driving without a license and no insurance. So it started there and just started racking up until now where I'm at and where we're at currently, I could do 800 hours of community service, which keeps would keep me busy for a while.

00;28;34;11 - 00;28;36;02
Richard Chambless
But it's just under six grand.

00;28;36;27 - 00;28;38;09
Paul Chapman
How much was the original ticket for the insurance.

00;28;38;10 - 00;28;57;05
Richard Chambless
The original. No, insurance is like 250, but that's been years of ongoing to where I had nobody help me nobody offer any assistance in till I met with a 100 Families. One of the things 100 Families works with is it's difficult to do something, they try and find a way for you to be able to accomplish it.

00;28;57;26 - 00;29;05;09
Richard Chambless
They try and keep with it so that way you can get things done in a step forward versus just feeling hopeless like you can't do it.

00;29;06;09 - 00;29;10;21
Paul Chapman
Janie did kind of the intake and started helping you get access. To to help who you get connected to?

00;29;10;21 - 00;29;31;07
Richard Chambless
Whenever I met with Jamie, they were, first off, just trying to survive, just trying to get me from where I was to the very next day. So the first thing it was help me get established with some food, where the local food banks were, help me apply for food stamps and double check my kids insurance, help with all the paperwork.

00;29;31;07 - 00;30;02;21
Richard Chambless
That's difficult for somebody like me that has ADHD or has other issues they're dealing with the process. She just sat me down and asked me the questions and helped submit the paperwork where it needed to go. I got off of opiates. I was on prescription medicated opiates and didn't realize I was actually hooked on them. I thought it was just normal process and I went through a very, very hard detox where I just shut everything down and just lived in my house in detox solo which Jamie pulled me out of.

00;30;03;01 - 00;30;20;26
Richard Chambless
She actually was like, Look, you need this assistance. You can do it. You're doing it the hard way. So she connected me with there was a recovery, Celebrate Recovery. And that's where 100 Families really steps in and goes, Hey, this person legitimately needs our help. It's not just going in to get whatever they want.

00;30;21;15 - 00;30;22;10
Paul Chapman
How much time you got?

00;30;23;03 - 00;30;41;16
Richard Chambless
And as of right now, oh, a lot. I couldn't even give a number. I've already put in 600 hours and I've got another 800 to do. But it actually feels like a community service. So I don't I'd rather do that than have to be in jail by far.

00;30;41;28 - 00;31;09;06
Paul Chapman
So thanks for joining us for this episode of Smart Justice, where we talked about the opportunities in district courts upstream from incarceration and foster care. And join us next episode when we dive into the courts.

00;31;09;06 - 00;31;22;23
Charles Newsom
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Smart Justice. Join us next week when we speak with judges about how a courtroom can be the place to change the course of life. See you, then.

00;31;22;23 - 00;31;53;29
Ed Lowry
Thanks to our guests, former Chief Justice Betty Dickey, Judge Charles Baker, Judge Wendy Sharmun, Judge Sarah Capp, Sergeant Jason McGlawn, Sheriff Phillip Miller and Richard Chambless. Special thanks to Arkansas Churches for Life for sponsoring. mMusical credits include “Tangles” by Aaron Sprinkle, “Wander” by Eiloh, and “Believe in Me” by Moments. Music is licenses through soundstripe.com. The Babies in the Water parable was adapted from a story attributed to various creators, including Saul Alinsky and Irving Zola.

00;31;54;12 - 00;32;12;24
Ed Lowry
Smart Justice is a work of restore Hope. Please consider helping us produce more work like this by becoming a sponsor at www.smartjustice.org. Thank you again.